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gary1701


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#3189 2008-10-08 19:44 GMT-5 hours    
Hi all,

I'm looking for some advice from any members who have a good understanding of the Russian system of serials/coding on their military aircraft. This ia a area whis I'm rather unsure on and need some advice before editing the database.

Most of us are familiar with the large coloured numbers that Russia uses on it's military aircraft; like, 'Red 32' for example. What I need to know is if this colour and number is a assigned serial that stays with the airframe throughout it's career, even if transferred between units, or a local, unit level assigned code that can and does change when reassigned. I'm leaning towards this being a code as I find it difficult to believe that there would be just one 'Red 32' or 'Blue 21' of each type in the whole Russian inventory of each type - bearing in mind the same system was used by the old USSR with it's thousands of aircraft. If anybody has any informed opinion on this I'd like to hear it please. The other major databases seem to have gone the way of allocating this as a serial but I'm not convinced that it actually is.

Gary

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Grimmi


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#3192 2008-10-08 21:16 GMT-5 hours    
Hi Gary,

I think you speak from my uploads

What I know is that every regiment has three squadrons. If each squadron has for example 16 a/c's (in Cold War, today I dont know - heard of 12 ?) and in total each regiment possesses 9 training aircrafts (doubleseaters)...

... for that we can take the following numbers:

Regiment (color Red/Blue/Yellow/Black, whatever)
Squadron 1: 01, 02, ... 17 (number 13 is never in use on russian aircrafts)
Squadron 2: 20, 21, ... 35
Squadron 3: 40, 41, ... 55
Training Aircrafts: 60, 61, ... 68

An example are the MiG's I've photographed 1997 in Primorsko - Akhtarsk (URKP). They weared numbers between 04 and 40 (MiG-29 9-12) and 89 - 98 for the MiG-29UB (9.51).
One of those UB's had - according to an russian spotter - moved to another regiment, but had not to change the number (received only new batch).

Each a/c has also an individual c/n-number - but for that you have to look inside the frontweel-bay, not always a good idea to sneak there in russia

For that the coloured number is the only thing easy accessible to us.

I hope I had given you a light on that - and many greetings out of the swiss snow

Grimmi

Muuuuhhh - welcome in the land of milk and chocolate

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Chris


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#3232 2008-11-02 13:47 GMT-5 hours    
Hi Gary,

The numbers or bort numbers that you refer to are only code numbers assigned by the regiment that the aircraft belongs to at the time it is serving. Once an aircraft for whatever reason changes regiment then it will almost certainly change colour and number to fit in with its new regiment.

Before the Russian AF left East Germany there were a few aircraft swapped about and numerous recodings took place. When the MiG-29 unit left Finow on its final withdrawal a number of MiG-29s had new bort numbers on the intake and their previous (different) bort numbers still on the fin tips.

There are exceptions with prototypes or company development aircraft who's code numbers do represent the actual airframe.

Air forces like Ukraine and Belarus may now keep permanent bort numbers as the number of aircraft in service are now much smaller.

I have argued with Anet screeners on many occasions that the construction number is the correct identity/serial number and the 01red is just the unit code. Its a battle I have given up fighting! Nice to find someone who wants to include them on the data base properly. The only down side is that most photographers do not know the construction number of the Russian aircraft they have shot!

Chris

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gary1701


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#3304 2008-11-21 19:15 GMT-5 hours    
Hi,

Sorry about my lack of response before now, I was remiss in not doing so. I think both of you have answered exactly what I was looking for, and have confirmed what I suspected. I wasn't aware that the coding was to such a specific pattern within units, so thanks for that as well.

I'll put it to the rest of the site staff before I change anything, but I intend to change the serial entries to codes, leaving the serial blank as that is not applicable and only adding construction numbers (when known). That should cover the system used as well as possible. Thanks again gents.

I know what you mean about A.net Chris. I have had more gripes with them over military entries than in the whole rejections and screening process. I'm intending on avoiding the illogical system they seem to use over there!

Gary

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