You're not logged in.

User Name  Remember me?
Password 
  Register   Lost your password? 
 
> 1 <

Author Message

a10av8or1971


Members


 Online status  

 
Posts: 35
Location:
Occupation:
Age: 46

#3042 2008-08-16 20:32 GMT-5 hours    
An aerial dogfight will be taking place above the skies of Lincolnshire, 60 years after planes last fought in Britain.

The iconic Second World War Spitfire will be taking on the £67 million Eurofighter Typhoon in a dogfight over RAF Coningsby.

The flight marks the start of the RAF Wings appeal for current and former servicemen and also comes as the RAF celebrates its 90th anniversary.



RAFA corporate communications manager Tony Hirons said guests at RAF Coningsby on September 2 will be in for a treat.

"It is incredibly rare for anyone to get the chance to see the two aircraft flying together as the Typhoon is an extremely recent addition to the RAF's portfolio," he said.

"To see it flying alongside the Spitfire will be a truly jaw dropping experience."



http://www.thisislincolnshire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=156130&command=displayContent&sourceNode=242285&home=yes&more_nodeId1=156139&contentPK=21289374

Author Message

31 Bravo


Gold Members
See my 36 Photos

 Online status  

 
Posts: 197
Location: Halifax
Occupation: Air Mechanic
Age:

#3045 2008-08-17 15:32 GMT-5 hours    
Wow this would be amazing to watch. Guess they'll be using guns only. I hope there will be videos of this around. It's always great to watch the old warbirds fly in formation with modern jets in heritage flights let alone see old and young mix it up and dog fight together.

Author Message

N74JW


Members


 Online status  

 
Posts: 190
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Occupation: IT Administrator
Age: 42

#3083 2008-08-20 16:44 GMT-5 hours    
I am not a combat pilot but there does not seem to be much of a competition here.

Ideally, each pilot would fight his or her respective aircraft according to its strengths, with the Spit at a clear disadvantage. Question One is what model Spitfire will be involved? There are significant between the different variants. There is no kind of RADAR warning receiver, or ECM installed on any model Spitfire. The pilot will not know he/she has been targeted until they are blown out of the sky.

If I were the Spit pilot, I would stay low and slow. Something the Typhoon is not optimized for in its performance. Keeping in mind a slow target is easy to hit. Do not fly straight and level for more than a few seconds. Keeping one's eyes outside of the cockpit should be natural for a Spit pilot, there is not much to look at inside.

Heat-Seeking missiles may not be the best choice. Modern heat-seekers are very sensitive to all kinds of radio-thermal patterns. In the early 90s, I could get an AIM-9L to cue on a cigarette lighter from across the hangar. That was almost twenty years ago and today's Typhoon packs a meaner punch. The Spitfire does not produce the kind of heat from exhaust that a jet does and the heat signature from the leading edges and prop would not be as warm due to slower speed and the big, spinning fan at the front.

RADAR-guided missiles may seem like a better option, but there are a couple of caveats. First is cost, an AIM-120 or Meteor missile will run more than the Spitfire did during the time of its acquisition. Second, the RADAR signature of early-model Spitfires, those covered with cloth and dope, would be very small. The Germans had a very difficult time of detecting RAF DH Mosquitoes on their reconnaissance runs over Europe. The DH Mosquito would be considered the equivalent to a twin-engined Spitfire. Likewise for the RAF’s Channel RADAR in detecting V-1s crossing on their way to the UK. No doubt as to the fact that the Typhoon’s RADAR is eons ahead of WWII Luftwaffe sets, but hitting an air:ground target with an air:air weapon is always tough. If the Spit pilot had no ethics whatsoever, he/she could hide in the RADAR signature of a larger commercial aircraft.

A gunfight would push the Typhoon to the limit of its agility and low-speed handling. The Spitfire can fly and fight at 250mph, whereas the Typhoon would be a few knots above stall speed. Load the Typhoon with stores and that variable increases. As agile as the Typhoon may be over its predecessor, the Spitfire will always be able to get inside of the turn in an engagement. Traditionally, that action has been the winning maneuver in air:air combat. Can the Spit pilot get off a shot before the Typhoon is out of gun range?

The Spitfire flies low (<FL050) and slow (<300kias) and hugs the Earth. Typhoon searches from FL080 with RADAR, then in a series of passing sweeps engages the Spitfire with 27mm gun. Soon the typhoon will exhaust its shells as it misses the slow, but nimble target. The Spitfire pilot has 350 rounds per gun, but no chance at engaging the Typhoon unless it climbs. The Spitfire climbing to altitude and meeting the Typhoon equals death, FAIL in IT/Web 2.0 terms. Attention has to be paid to finding the typhoon outside of the cockpit and NOT hitting the ground. Finding the Typhoon with its grey c/s will not be like spotting an ME-109 in full colors. The Typhoon is fast and has the edge in situational awareness that can control the pace of the engagement. The best chance for the Spitfire to shoot down the Typhoon would be to catch it taking off or landing, or if the pilot made a mistake and engaged the Spitfire at low-level, low-speed. Griffon-engined Spits with 20mm cannons can inflict some serious damage with only a few hits as could the Typhoon’s 27mm Mauser obliterate the Spitfire. A flight profile of hi-lo-hi could be used by the Typhoon to dip down and nail the Spitfire with it’s canons, ending the match.

Author Message

N74JW


Members


 Online status  

 
Posts: 190
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Occupation: IT Administrator
Age: 42

#3084 2008-08-20 18:38 GMT-5 hours    
~ BTW

The only fighter I would like to face the Typhoon with would be an F-22A or another Typhoon...

Author Message

31 Bravo


Gold Members
See my 36 Photos

 Online status  

 
Posts: 197
Location: Halifax
Occupation: Air Mechanic
Age:

#3085 2008-08-20 23:54 GMT-5 hours    
Im speculating that it'll be a gun's only dogfight, to make it fair to the spitfire.

Author Message

tomcat604


Photographers


 Online status  

 
Posts: 3
Location:
Occupation:
Age:

#3091 2008-08-21 20:22 GMT-5 hours    
Quote
31 Bravo :
Im speculating that it'll be a gun's only dogfight, to make it fair to the spitfire.



You mean a "gun camera" only dogfight? Wouldn't do if the Spit wasted the Typhoon!!!!

Author Message

31 Bravo


Gold Members
See my 36 Photos

 Online status  

 
Posts: 197
Location: Halifax
Occupation: Air Mechanic
Age:

#3092 2008-08-21 23:09 GMT-5 hours    
Well yeah of course not real guns. why would they waste a perfectly good Spitfire and kill a pilot in the process, that would be murder.

Author Message

tomcat604


Photographers


 Online status  

 
Posts: 3
Location:
Occupation:
Age:

#3095 2008-08-22 17:03 GMT-5 hours    
I agree - they should waste the Typhoon instead and put on a real show

Author Message

31 Bravo


Gold Members
See my 36 Photos

 Online status  

 
Posts: 197
Location: Halifax
Occupation: Air Mechanic
Age:

#3128 2008-09-08 01:04 GMT-5 hours    
What happen with this? Any videos or pictures? Clicking on the link only takes you to the site's home page.

Author Message

admin


Administrators
See my 57 Photos

 Online status  

 
Posts: 2118
Location: S.F. Bay Area, CA
Occupation: Webmaster
Age:

#3129 2008-09-09 11:57 GMT-5 hours    
I'm interested in this also. Any news? There's nothing about it on Youtube either. I was hoping there would be a video there.

-Ray

This is the oldest I've ever been.

> 1 <